The largest Civic Type R club forum

[Arran]

Go on, give it a go. What can go wrong?

Ha Ha

[foolserrand1985]

Reverse psychology, I like it.

I just want to see pic's of a Mugen 200 towing something.

Then the thread asking why my car is now broken.

[BigPete]

Right - update ....

It transpires that it is all about the power delivery. A Torque of 142 lbs/ft on it's own would be enough to pull a small trailer, but the delivery of it at such a high RPM makes the Type R unsuitable for towing.

Nothing to do with the suspension, the noseweight isn't an issue - of course, when you think about it 2 bags of cement in the boot would put more strain on the suspension than a trailer (the bags of cement are centered in very much the same way as a towball) ... the suspension does not collapse (no wonder they all laughed at me when I said that!).

So, it's a lack of power at the right point in the RPM curve which is the issue - it is simply not pleasant to tow with .... unsuitable.

Which is a good enough explaination for me - I can understand that reasoning - I obviously need a more Torquey car ...

Thanks again for your assistance, although I know you thought me daft!

Diesel I guess? Or a Turbo petrol?

[EvoStu]

Right - update ....

It transpires that it is all about the power delivery. A Torque of 142 lbs/ft on it's own would be enough to pull a small trailer, but the delivery of it at such a high RPM makes the Type R unsuitable for towing.

Nothing to do with the suspension, the noseweight isn't an issue - of course, when you think about it 2 bags of cement in the boot would put more strain on the suspension than a trailer (the bags of cement are centered in very much the same way as a towball) ... the suspension does not collapse (no wonder they all laughed at me when I said that!).

So, it's a lack of power at the right point in the RPM curve which is the issue - it is simply not pleasant to tow with .... unsuitable.

Which is a good enough explaination for me - I can understand that reasoning - I obviously need a more Torquey car ...

Thanks again for your assistance, although I know you thought me daft!

Diesel I guess? Or a Turbo petrol?

Who told you this exactly? The Civic Type R has just as much torque as ANY normally aspirated 2 litre car. Its nothing to do with torque, you see far less torquey cars pulling trailers around.

[foolserrand1985]

Right - update ....

It transpires that it is all about the power delivery. A Torque of 142 lbs/ft on it's own would be enough to pull a small trailer, but the delivery of it at such a high RPM makes the Type R unsuitable for towing.

Nothing to do with the suspension, the noseweight isn't an issue - of course, when you think about it 2 bags of cement in the boot would put more strain on the suspension than a trailer (the bags of cement are centered in very much the same way as a towball) ... the suspension does not collapse (no wonder they all laughed at me when I said that!).

So, it's a lack of power at the right point in the RPM curve which is the issue - it is simply not pleasant to tow with .... unsuitable.

Which is a good enough explaination for me - I can understand that reasoning - I obviously need a more Torquey car ...

Thanks again for your assistance, although I know you thought me daft!

Diesel I guess? Or a Turbo petrol?

Who told you this exactly? The Civic Type R has just as much torque as ANY normally aspirated 2 litre car. Its nothing to do with torque, you see far less torquey cars pulling trailers around.

I reckon BigPete is either Julzbunny pulling some kind of mega tarp.

A troll from another forum trying to spark up the whole "honda's have no torque" BS.

A very sad individual who is being spoon fed utter tosh by his local dealership.

[BlockEight]

being spoon fed utter tosh by his local dealership.

This.

[BigPete]

WHAT?!

Jeeeez, some people are so insecure - enjoy your great cars and treat newcomers with some respect, even if they seem to ask daft questions! FFS I want to buy one!! - that's hardly slagging them off!! ... some people really need to get out more! :scratch:

[EvoStu]

WHAT?!

Jeeeez, some people are so insecure - enjoy your great cars and treat newcomers with some respect, even if they seem to ask daft questions! FFS I want to buy one!! - that's hardly slagging them off!! ... some people really need to get out more! :scratch:

Who told you it was torque related? Because they're wrong. :salut:

[dandemoraliser]

Has anyone discussed the fact that having a towbar fitted to a car with a model report which states "zero towing weight" will therefore nullify any insurance......?

[EvoStu]

Has anyone discussed the fact that having a towbar fitted to a car with a model report which states "zero towing weight" will therefore nullify any insurance......?

It doesn't matter........the dealership knows best. :salut:

[BlockEight]

Has anyone discussed the fact that having a towbar fitted to a car with a model report which states "zero towing weight" will therefore nullify any insurance......?

See the other thead.

[Atki]

WHAT?!

Jeeeez, some people are so insecure - enjoy your great cars and treat newcomers with some respect, even if they seem to ask daft questions! FFS I want to buy one!! - that's hardly slagging them off!! ... some people really need to get out more! :scratch:

You have asked a question ... we've all stated the facts and your still comtemplating buying one ... maybe your not treating our replied with any respect or you agree more so with a commission paid jobs worth sales man. I'm not been arsey pay but we've all tried to help you any you won't listen, what could you expect people to be like 5 pages on in the thread haha :scratch:

You stated before that you were an engineer, you should know the basics in disctribution of weight? If you put a few backs of cement in your car equivelent to the weight of the trailer then the trailer would create more stress. For one its attached over a smaller area, the load is behind the suspension and under braking then accelerating would create more stress on the rear suspension etc as it's technically as seperate entity and has it's own momentum. The same weight above it spread out over a larger area will cause less stress, I'm sure someone mentioned about trainers and high heels, you have the same weight but it is focused on a smaller area hence there's more stress on that area.

Anyways enough of a rant Happy caravaning :salut:

Atki

[BigPete]

The amount of assumptions made here amazes me, let me clarify some things:-

1. I did not mention towing a caravan.

2. I am an Engineer, yes - so, I ask the question 'WHY?'

3. I take all the information, filter out the trash (Like suspension collapses) and act on whats left.

4. The Model Year 2010 cars 'may' have changed - OK, they haven't but it was worth exploring.

5. Plenty of rubbish is posted on Internet Forums, but some of it is really helpful - filter and filter again.

6. 3 Honda Main Dealers have now said that they have, and still do, fit TowBars to Type R and Type S.

7. It is quite clear that the Type R cannot tow because the max. torque of a rather low 142 lbs/ft comes in at a unusable (for towing purposes) RPM.

8. The Type R is a great car ... quite why some insecure souls jump on me saying I am somehow insulting it is mind boggling .... and rather sad to be honest.

9. The Type R isn't suited to Towing, clearly ... it is suited to what it does well and that's giving mildly hot performance with economy and reliability - it's a cracking car at what it does!

10. It's the last thing I want to annoy anyone - but, I can question, I can debate and I can doubt what is said by well meaning helpful people.

Lighten up - I'm old, I'm shocked at how old compared to some posting on here - I could be a grandad to some of you ..... so, go easy on me :boxing:

[EvoStu]

Once again I ask you the question who told you its because of lack of torque? Is it the same people who told you that they have, and still do, fit TowBars to Type R and Type S? Because I'll tell you now its not because of that and as I've stated further up the thread, there are plenty of cars with less torque than the CTR than can tow without an issue. The standard torque on the Type R is in line with just about every other 2 litre NA engine on the market.

[Sedge]

Ford 2.0 Duratec 2.0 Petrol 185 Nm (136 lb.ft.) at 4500 min-1 (rpm)
Vaxhaull EcoFlex 1.8 Petrol 175Nm (129 lb.ft.) @ 3800rpm
Renault 2.0 Petrol 195 Nm (144 lb.ft.) (RPM figure is not quoted)

No choice in these quoted figures, just the ones that came to mind first, all taken form the various websites today just now.
The Civic seems to be well placed torque wise, better than two and only a little lower than one.

I think we have all ignored the point Dan has raised, also is there not a 'driving the vehicle not as intended' which could get you in trouble? Similar to the CTR only being for four people?!
Sedge

[Ali]

Insurer: And has the car had any modifications?

BigPete: Just a towbar.

Insurer: The computer states that this model has a zero towing weight.

BigPete: Ah, don't worry about that. I decided to ignore Honda's advice and trust a dodgy dealer, who was just after my cash, to get his mate to bodge one onto the back with a wing, a prayer and a welding torch.

Insurer: That will affect your annual premium sir. The computer says it would like £24370 from you, up front. And for you to video the part when you try and tow and it rips the back end off the car, and post it on Youtube so everyone in the office can have a laugh at your expense. How would you like to pay for that?

[BigPete]

Ford 2.0 Duratec 2.0 Petrol 185 Nm (136 lb.ft.) at 4500 min-1 (rpm)
Vaxhaull EcoFlex 1.8 Petrol 175Nm (129 lb.ft.) @ 3800rpm
Renault 2.0 Petrol 195 Nm (144 lb.ft.) (RPM figure is not quoted)

And there-in lies the problem ..... the Type R delivers its 142 lbs/ft @ 5600 RPM!!!

It's the 5600 part which kills it as a Tow Car .... it's simply unusable at that level (below that high RPM figure the Torque is even less!) It's nothing like a flat Torque curve. It would be a miserable way to Tow, I quote what I was told today, "It would struggle to pull the skin off a Rice Pudding Sir" - but of course, it wasn't designed to!

So, in essence - pardon the pun - it's all Torque. (or lack of it).

[motty]

this is the biggest load of poo ive read since the pipercross venom thread

[Mart]

This reminds me of my 15 month old boy.
No matter how many times he's told not to press the buttons on the Sky box, he still edges towards it to press them again.

No means NO!!!

[Genga]

Why not let him do it. If he feels comfortable with it, then go for it.

I'm not saying it would, im not saying it wouldn't I drive a car without it, I don't intend on getting one, due to the fact I have nothing to tow.

When the time comes I go away for a week in a caravan with my friend, we will drive his Dad's Megane, for the simple reasons, my Friend's Hyundai Coupe doesn't have a towbar (while the Megane does), and AFAIK, the Coupe isn't meant to have one either.

Saying not to use a towbar on your CTR is like saying not to sharpen a pencil with a kitchen knife, or telling someone not to touch the wall because it's just been painted on.

Some people do it, others dont. Don't get me wrong, I see many signs saying "WET PAINT ON WALLS" and after running my hands down them, I have no paint on my hands.

To get to the point I'm making, it's up to you if you do it. People here have advised not to do it, but people advise girls on the forum to put shoes on their heads and take pics. Do they all do it? I don't think so!

But, if you do go ahead and get a towbar, and tow even the smallest trailer, and something happens to your car, I would advise going against posting on this forum to say it broke down. If you're lucky, then you might post. Either way, someone is going to come out with a case of "I told you so!"

Good luck fella :thumbup: