The largest Civic Type R club forum

[Ali]

8 WHOLE seconds....wow, worth the expense.

[Papillon]

Performance better than a Prius? Paps, I can cycle faster than a Prius.

The standard CR-Z is being quoted in the JDM brochure as 0-60 in 9.8 secs from it's 1.5l hybrid engine and all the complexity that entails. I seem to remember that the EG Civic 1.5LSi had exactly the same performance figures without the complexity, without even VTEC, in 1992. I have to wonder if the extra weight of the IMA gubbins and the battery storage wasn't there, would the engine on it's own be just as quick? Is the rush to make a "desirable" hybrid just causing them to add more weight which, perversely, needs the extra hybrid power to move it around?

As for the first performance hybrid, they better be quick. Both Ford and Mitsubishi are going to use hybrid running gear in the next RS and Evo XI, and they won't be dawdling from 0-60 in a yawn inducing 9.8 seconds. Bizarrely, using electric rear hubs and an otherwise FWD drivetrain to give 4wd. An idea that Honda Germany showed in a concept car nearly 8 years ago. I guess Honda Japan weren't paying attention...

And? It's not going to be an RS or an Evo, is it? That's not what it's aimed at, and it's not who it's going to be sold to. People bought Pumas for what they looked like, not how they went. Honda will be looking at a warm to hot hatch market, and they'll probably do that quite well. Not every car is aimed at those who want 0-60 in 5 seconds.

[EvoStu]

Both Ford and Mitsubishi are going to use hybrid running gear in the next RS and Evo XI, and they won't be dawdling from 0-60 in a yawn inducing 9.8 seconds.

And which magazine reported this first Ali? Care me to remind you?
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoe ... twins.html

[smartie]

Performance better than a Prius? Paps, I can cycle faster than a Prius.

The standard CR-Z is being quoted in the JDM brochure as 0-60 in 9.8 secs from it's 1.5l hybrid engine and all the complexity that entails. I seem to remember that the EG Civic 1.5LSi had exactly the same performance figures without the complexity, without even VTEC, in 1992. I have to wonder if the extra weight of the IMA gubbins and the battery storage wasn't there, would the engine on it's own be just as quick? Is the rush to make a "desirable" hybrid just causing them to add more weight which, perversely, needs the extra hybrid power to move it around?

As for the first performance hybrid, they better be quick. Both Ford and Mitsubishi are going to use hybrid running gear in the next RS and Evo XI, and they won't be dawdling from 0-60 in a yawn inducing 9.8 seconds. Bizarrely, using electric rear hubs and an otherwise FWD drivetrain to give 4wd. An idea that Honda Germany showed in a concept car nearly 8 years ago. I guess Honda Japan weren't paying attention...

And? It's not going to be an RS or an Evo, is it? That's not what it's aimed at, and it's not who it's going to be sold to. People bought Pumas for what they looked like, not how they went. Honda will be looking at a warm to hot hatch market, and they'll probably do that quite well. Not every car is aimed at those who want 0-60 in 5 seconds.

We will be judging it on being a CRZ Type R, not a warm hatch. Assuming it gets an R badge.

[Papillon]

Performance better than a Prius? Paps, I can cycle faster than a Prius.

The standard CR-Z is being quoted in the JDM brochure as 0-60 in 9.8 secs from it's 1.5l hybrid engine and all the complexity that entails. I seem to remember that the EG Civic 1.5LSi had exactly the same performance figures without the complexity, without even VTEC, in 1992. I have to wonder if the extra weight of the IMA gubbins and the battery storage wasn't there, would the engine on it's own be just as quick? Is the rush to make a "desirable" hybrid just causing them to add more weight which, perversely, needs the extra hybrid power to move it around?

As for the first performance hybrid, they better be quick. Both Ford and Mitsubishi are going to use hybrid running gear in the next RS and Evo XI, and they won't be dawdling from 0-60 in a yawn inducing 9.8 seconds. Bizarrely, using electric rear hubs and an otherwise FWD drivetrain to give 4wd. An idea that Honda Germany showed in a concept car nearly 8 years ago. I guess Honda Japan weren't paying attention...

And? It's not going to be an RS or an Evo, is it? That's not what it's aimed at, and it's not who it's going to be sold to. People bought Pumas for what they looked like, not how they went. Honda will be looking at a warm to hot hatch market, and they'll probably do that quite well. Not every car is aimed at those who want 0-60 in 5 seconds.

We will be judging it on being a CRZ Type R, not a warm hatch. Assuming it gets an R badge.

Sure. And something like 7 seconds to 60 (as an example) would be well within those parameters. It just seems strange to me to slate it before it's even come out, or even been announced as a product! But it's still not going to be in the Evo category, and using that as an example even for a fully petrol engined model would be a bit pointless.

[EvoStu]

For the record a production Type R has always had a 0-60 of more than 6 secs and less than 7 secs.

The EK9 0-60 time was NEVER matched by a single magazine test and was discounted.

[smartie]

Not really slating it, just arguing the toss.

[EvoStu]

Not really slating it, just arguing the toss.

No I know mate. But this was just to back up Paps point that trying to get a Type R that does 0-60 in 5 seconds pushes the car into the realms of far more expensive and hardcore vehicles.

[smartie]

Not really slating it, just arguing the toss.

No I know mate. But this was just to back up Paps point that trying to get a Type R that does 0-60 in 5 seconds pushes the car into the realms of far more expensive and hardcore vehicles.

I believe all Ali was alluding to was that Mitsubishi and Ford are going to come up with hybrids soon that may steal the thunder of this one if its just a luke warm performance car.

Fine, they have the eco-mentler-friendly CRZ out already, now do something awesome with it for the Type R.

[EvoStu]

Not really slating it, just arguing the toss.

No I know mate. But this was just to back up Paps point that trying to get a Type R that does 0-60 in 5 seconds pushes the car into the realms of far more expensive and hardcore vehicles.

I believe all Ali was alluding to was that Mitsubishi and Ford are going to come up with hybrids soon that may steal the thunder of this one if its just a luke warm performance car.

Fine, they have the eco-mentler-friendly CRZ out already, now do something awesome with it for the Type R.

Mitsubishi have not got the funds to push this forward and Ford can only do due their vast r&d budget.

We shall see. Most manufacturers are way behind on this technology.

[Ali]

Paps, you forget your glasses again. Smartie, is correct, the first real world performance hybrid is what I'm alluding to.

Stu, Mitsubishi already have a fully working drivetrain in the PX MieV concept, shown at the 2009 LA motorshow and scheduled for production. The Evo will share the platform.




And you, yourself, claimed that the AE article came directly from Ford, as did the pictures. So if it's a fail, it's self pwnage on your behalf. As for the Evo, I trust Autocar a lot more than AE:

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArtic ... rs/247008/

Or Motor Trend, who have the source article from within Mitsubishi:

http://www.motortrend.com/features/auto ... index.html

It makes a lot more sense for them. Why build an expensive custom drivetrain, as they have in the past, when hybrids are the next big thing and you can pool resources, altering power outputs of the engines and hub motors to suit the vehicle? Interestingly, while the Ford will be FWD with rear hybrid motors, the Evo will be the opposite. And you forget, Mitsubishi are part of PSA in all but name. The tech will be fed to Citroen and Peugeot, saving R&D costs.

[EvoStu]

Paps, you forget your glasses again. Smartie, is correct, the first real world performance hybrid is what I'm alluding to.

Stu, Mitsubishi already have a fully working drivetrain in the PX MieV concept, shown at the 2009 LA motorshow and scheduled for production. The Evo will share the platform.




And you, yourself, claimed that the AE article came directly from Ford, as did the pictures. So if it's a fail, it's self pwnage on your behalf. As for the Evo, I trust Autocar a lot more than AE:

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArtic ... rs/247008/

Or Motor Trend, who have the source article from within Mitsubishi:

http://www.motortrend.com/features/auto ... index.html

It makes a lot more sense for them. Why build an expensive custom drivetrain, as they have in the past, when hybrids are the next big thing and you can pool resources, altering power outputs of the engines and hub motors to suit the vehicle? Interestingly, while the Ford will be FWD with rear hybrid motors, the Evo will be the opposite. And you forget, Mitsubishi are part of PSA in all but name. The tech will be fed to Citroen and Peugeot, saving R&D costs.

Part of PSA in all but name.........so part of one of the largest loss making enterprises in French history. Congratulations Mitsubishi, from one fire into the depths of hell.

So if Autocar report it, its true, and if Autoexpress report it, its false. They are all as bad as each other mate, relying on rumours to circulate their gutter press guesswork on automotive wonderments. Unfortunately as you well know, its very rare that any of the press get their guesstimates correct.

We shall see what these companies deliver in 12 months.

[Ali]

2013 for the Evo, 2012 for the RS.

Though the chassis tech for the Evo, which includes active roll and far smarter torque distribution, has been ready since 2006. The Evo X was supposed to get it all but financial issues, the failed Daimler merger and a bunch of recalls that year prevented it. And put your glasses on as well, the story originated from Motor Trend which, along with Road & Track, is by far the most accurate US motoring journal. Autocar just copied and pasted...

[sjw]

There is already a hybrid on the market which hits sixty in under six seconds, and has been for some time.

[smartie]

There is already a hybrid on the market which hits sixty in under six seconds, and has been for some time.

Lexus?

[Ali]

The Lexus barely counts though. Having a giant V8 and then popping a couple of AA batteries under the hood is more a marketing gimmick. There's the Tesla, of course, but that's pure electric and hugely expensive.

[smartie]

The Lexus barely counts though. Having a giant V8 and then popping a couple of AA batteries under the hood is more a marketing gimmick. There's the Tesla, of course, but that's pure electric and hugely expensive.

Are any of these cars actually "eco" anyway.

[J]

The Lexus barely counts though. Having a giant V8 and then popping a couple of AA batteries under the hood is more a marketing gimmick. .

But it doesent have to pay tha CC in London.

[sjw]

Dunno, the GS450h is only a naturally aspirated 296bhp 3.5 litre V6. The car weighs 1660kg, but manages 0-62 in 5.9 seconds. Peak combined output is 340bhp, which is interesting because the electric motor is rated at 197bhp peak - it's only adding 44bhp of that at peak power. I wonder if you can remap them...

It puts out 179g/km. Compare that to a 370Z, which is 135kg lighter, 326bhp from 3.7 litres and 245g/km and you can kind of see the benefit. Obviously the usual caveats about hybrids and test cycles apply, but the official number is what matters to Toyota these days.

http://www.lexus.co.uk/range/gs/specifi ... =GS%20450h

Anyway, the point is that a hot CR-Z won't be the first performance hybrid, and it won't be as accelerative as the one that's been around for ages.

[smartie]

If you class a big fat shed as a performance car then yes.