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BTCC, 4 wheels? 2 Wheels? On Water? How are the Honda teams doing?
User avatar
By evilowl
#2057327
mikeyv wrote:
evilowl wrote:
mikeyv wrote:Strange that a thread about Winehouse and her drugs decline gets shifted to the murky depths of the music section, yet a thread concerning motor sport is started and allowed to flourish in general chat?

Wonder why?
Because it's a thread about the economy and we don't have an economy section

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nort ... 766299.stm

Thank fukc for that, I was afraid it might be a case of one rule for moderators and another for the rest of us. :roll:
Along with all the other Amy Winehouse threads in the Movies, TV & Music section I suppose :roll:

http://www.civictype-r.co.uk/forum/view ... 4&t=168230
http://www.civictype-r.co.uk/forum/view ... 4&t=165630
http://www.civictype-r.co.uk/forum/view ... 4&t=157313

Next question please? I suggest "bawwwwwwwwwwwwww, my butt hurts because those nasty moderators moved my thread" would be a good topic title
User avatar
By Ali
#2057331
EvoStu wrote:
Ali wrote:From technologically masterful world champions 20 years ago to technologically inert also-rans now. Sounds much like their cars....
Oh f*ck off. :sleeping:

EvoStu.
Image
User avatar
By he-man
#2057337
Ali wrote:
EvoStu wrote:
Ali wrote:From technologically masterful world champions 20 years ago to technologically inert also-rans now. Sounds much like their cars....
Oh f*ck off. :sleeping:

EvoStu.
Image
LOL :boxing:
User avatar
By cheapskate
#2057544
Papillon wrote:
cheapskate wrote: Bóllocks. I am sure they will still be involved in racing in Japan in other classes. They only went back into F1 in 2005, so it is not as if the majority of R cars on the roads can claim F1 cred.

If Honda had stayed out of that useless F1 nonsense and put the $300,000,000 ANNUAL budget into road car design and equipping, we would be able to buy a 1100 kg car with carbon fibre rims, an engine that had a 10,000 rpm red line and brakes that didn't need upgrading for the track. Their sales wouldn't have fallen 41% either. I don't mean all of that 300m should have gone into type R's, rather that spread over the whole range, all their cars would have been better value for money which would probably have resulted in greater sales as a consequence.

What Honda should do is put some effort into developing a type R car that is clearly best of it's type, the way the Civic Type R was seen as the best hot hatch for several years running. Although the sales of such cars will always be low relative to the total, they add cachet to a marque in a more meaningful way than stuffing around in F1 ever will. I will bet there have been a lot of standard model Hondas sold simply because the type R's exist.

Nissan's GT-R is a classic example. Given the level of tech that is in that thing, it's almost bespoke levels of construction and limited numbers, it surely must be a loss-leader. That is, it is sold for less than it costs to make because it adds prestige to the brand which translates to increased sales across the range.

Honda should at least reclaim the hot-hatch crown or produce GT-R / Evo equivalents.

Personally I am glad they have dropped out of F1. If they had sunk the money they have wasted on F1 into Type R's .....
I don't think you properly read or understood what I wrote before this brilliant reply:
Blah, blah, Honda didn't design the car I wanted blah, blah, not fair, blah, blah, toys out of pram, blah blah, how come they've sold more of this rubbish type r than before blah, blah blah. :roll:
I actually own and drive a CTR and was aware of what it was before purchasing it. I was not bitching about it in the slightest.
Honda are out to make money. F1 is a halo business, and if it doesn't perform then it gets cut. Pretty simple really, why should they trash their name by finishing 15th every fortnight when it can be spent elsewhere. Honda have pulled out before.
And what was I advocating again? - that Honda might be better off spending the F1 budget on other things?

I find it odd that you should trash what I wrote and then end with a conclusion that advocates the same thing I did. :scratch:
User avatar
By Papillon
#2057546
cheapskate wrote:I find it odd that you should trash what I wrote and then end with a conclusion that advocates the same thing I did. :scratch:
Because, quite simply, the Type R name doesn't mean a thing. Not here. People are kidding themselves if they think it does.
User avatar
By kingofdbrits
#2057556
he-man wrote:I was listening to the Max the pervert on the radio this morning.
He was blamming the teams for not listening to him trying to reduce the cost of F1.
The Facts are, it is because of the FIA changing the rules every week. Teams then have to pump so much money into exploiting the new rules to save .1 sec over a race difference. FIA screw each circuit over, making them spend millions on redevelopment and infastructure. F1 is a product of the FIA, and if teams can't afford to buy into it, it is the FIAs fault IMO.
Agree with that, but don't forget that 51% of the money generated by F1 is split between the FIA and Bernie (he personally takes 24%) so only 49% has been going to the teams, no wonder they're short of cash!
User avatar
By Dazmb
#2057670
cheapskate wrote:
Dazmb wrote:I wonder how Honda will spin the whole Type R 'red H, racing heritage only on race cars.... etc' line now if they don't actually have any race cars ! (other than Indy cars maybe).

It's a sad state of affairs for Honda and Type R.
Bóllocks. I am sure they will still be involved in racing in Japan in other classes. They only went back into F1 in 2005, so it is not as if the majority of R cars on the roads can claim F1 cred.

If Honda had stayed out of that useless F1 nonsense and put the $300,000,000 ANNUAL budget into road car design and equipping, we would be able to buy a 1100 kg car with carbon fibre rims, an engine that had a 10,000 rpm red line and brakes that didn't need upgrading for the track. Their sales wouldn't have fallen 41% either. I don't mean all of that 300m should have gone into type R's, rather that spread over the whole range, all their cars would have been better value for money which would probably have resulted in greater sales as a consequence.

What Honda should do is put some effort into developing a type R car that is clearly best of it's type, the way the Civic Type R was seen as the best hot hatch for several years running. Although the sales of such cars will always be low relative to the total, they add cachet to a marque in a more meaningful way than stuffing around in F1 ever will. I will bet there have been a lot of standard model Hondas sold simply because the type R's exist.

Nissan's GT-R is a classic example. Given the level of tech that is in that thing, it's almost bespoke levels of construction and limited numbers, it surely must be a loss-leader. That is, it is sold for less than it costs to make because it adds prestige to the brand which translates to increased sales across the range.

Honda should at least reclaim the hot-hatch crown or produce GT-R / Evo equivalents.

Personally I am glad they have dropped out of F1. If they had sunk the money they have wasted on F1 into Type R's .....
I'm sorry - I must have imagined the pictures of F1cars in my EP3 CTR brochure and press pack associating the road car's development with the race car, and also Jenson test driving the FN2 on a track for a Honda promotional video.

That's right mate - there has never been any implied link from Honda between it's F1 programme and Type R :roll:
User avatar
By kingofdbrits
#2057708
F1 has developed things like traction control, ABS and safety items that are in many of the cars today along with many other technologies. Though the budgets involved are huge, so are the development costs of any new technology. One thing with F1 is that you will attract hugely talented personnel that can develop these new technologies, often for less cost that simply locking a bunch of egg heads away in a room.

If Honda cease motorsport while everyone else continues to develop they'll get left behind as no doubt the best at Honda F1 will just move to another team progressing them further while Honda stagnate.
User avatar
By tafder
#2058336
EvoStu wrote:
The current news is that there are apparently 5 serious buyers for the team and at the moment its business as usual.
Whilst I agree there will be cutbacks if someone takes over, I cannot see it being half of the workforce.

Remember Honda have a car which is apparently number 1 on the grid in terms of design as they are 6 months ahead of any rival in preperation.

Interesting times ahead.

With regards to what Cheapskate has said, I'll be interested to see what Honda do now with the new NSX project, I can see this being mothballed as well to be honest.

EvoStu.

Word in advance: I have personal interest in the future/what's next of Honda F1, so highly biased here. :idea:

At the moment, there are supposedly 3 parties interested in purchasing the operation.
I can easily see how the workforce can potentially be halved. There are over 700 employees involved, and supporting the involved costs without being a manufacturer, especially in the current climate, is quite tricky.
The 2009 car, as you say, began development quite early on, so it's a fair assumption that the current stage can be very advantageous. If the sale takes too long, however, I guess there will be serious delays. Hard to see Honda bankrolling heavily on an operation that is now officially abandoned.

Renault and Williams seem to have been heavily affected by the whole thing. The really bleak scenario would be a few teams pulling off, and Bernie not having enough teams to fulfill commercial agreements, effectively voiding the 2009 championship.
User avatar
By Mad-Dog
#2064597
dandemoraliser wrote:Ferrari probably next.........that'll shut montezemolo's stupid face.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArtic ... rs/236380/
as much as it irks me, i can never see ferrari quitting f1, it seems to be their sport ( FIA love them so much ) so i can't forsee them leaving.

however it still makes me laugh when you see the likes of porsche still making enormous profits even during a crisis :thumbup:
User avatar
By mikeyv
#2065630
evilowl wrote:
mikeyv wrote:
evilowl wrote:
mikeyv wrote:Strange that a thread about Winehouse and her drugs decline gets shifted to the murky depths of the music section, yet a thread concerning motor sport is started and allowed to flourish in general chat?

Wonder why?
Because it's a thread about the economy and we don't have an economy section

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nort ... 766299.stm

Thank fukc for that, I was afraid it might be a case of one rule for moderators and another for the rest of us. :roll:
Along with all the other Amy Winehouse threads in the Movies, TV & Music section I suppose :roll:

http://www.civictype-r.co.uk/forum/view ... 4&t=168230
http://www.civictype-r.co.uk/forum/view ... 4&t=165630
http://www.civictype-r.co.uk/forum/view ... 4&t=157313

Next question please? I suggest "bawwwwwwwwwwwwww, my butt hurts because those nasty moderators moved my thread" would be a good topic title
Hey, good idea, because it was your thread and your nasty mod mates moved it. :thumbup: hope your butt gets better soon.
User avatar
By EvoStu
#2082096
12 serious buyers are looking at the team as a viable option for racing next season. Ecclestone has been quoted as saying he is 99% certain the Honda car will be on the grid for the start of the season. So we shall see. :thumbup:

EvoStu.
User avatar
By Tec
#2082772
Honda also said that they have until the end of January to find a buyer otherwise everyone is on the dole. We're almost half way through January now.

Personally I'd be amazed if anyone even remotely touches it. No one can justify Honda F1s overheads in the current climate. 700 staff.... Does anyone know if they've been working on the car since the Honda decision? If they haven't I presume the car will again be at the back of the grid.
User avatar
By EvoStu
#2083197
Tec wrote:Honda also said that they have until the end of January to find a buyer otherwise everyone is on the dole. We're almost half way through January now.

Personally I'd be amazed if anyone even remotely touches it. No one can justify Honda F1s overheads in the current climate. 700 staff.... Does anyone know if they've been working on the car since the Honda decision? If they haven't I presume the car will again be at the back of the grid.
The company is continuing to trade as money was given by Honda until the end of this month. Like they stated in the press release it was business as normal until then. Any company taking over will almost certainly cut the workforce in half though.

The car is apparently a top 3 ranking machine according to those in the know though so it may be worth an investment as the initial groundwork is done.

EvoStu.
User avatar
By Tec
#2083460
EvoStu wrote:
Tec wrote:Honda also said that they have until the end of January to find a buyer otherwise everyone is on the dole. We're almost half way through January now.

Personally I'd be amazed if anyone even remotely touches it. No one can justify Honda F1s overheads in the current climate. 700 staff.... Does anyone know if they've been working on the car since the Honda decision? If they haven't I presume the car will again be at the back of the grid.
The company is continuing to trade as money was given by Honda until the end of this month. Like they stated in the press release it was business as normal until then. Any company taking over will almost certainly cut the workforce in half though.

The car is apparently a top 3 ranking machine according to those in the know though so it may be worth an investment as the initial groundwork is done.

EvoStu.
How is someone in the know? No real 2009 testing has taken place yet so no one knows what the grid is going to look like or the relative performance of any of the cars yet. Winter testing always throws up potential challengers and then its as per normal come Australia, big boys on the front row. I expect it will be the same. Standard engineer/ team silly season hyperbole. Honda weren't the only team to develop next years car after all! I would be very surprised if it was ahead to McLaren, Ferrari and BMW. BMW could have come far closer last year if they hadn't diverted the effort from the 2008 car so early.

Long time ago I had and Ep3 for 220k kilometers in[…]