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User avatar
By EvoStu
#3656786
Newannaive wrote:If they're tuning a 163bhp engine up to 200bhp, how much more will it take ? I guess there won't be much improvement to have other than sticking a turbo to it.
Exactly. The increments look set in stone. Unless they increase capacity or break their promise on staying NA, then 200BHP is probably the correct figure.
User avatar
By karl
#3656811
don't they have a 2.3 and 2.5 litre blocks they could use?
User avatar
By EvoStu
#3656812
karl wrote:don't they have a 2.3 and 2.5 litre blocks they could use?
Increased emissions mate. That's what they're trying to keep down.
User avatar
By karl
#3656816
ironically, in that case, turbos are the way forward lulz
User avatar
By EvoStu
#3656827
karl wrote:ironically, in that case, turbos are the way forward lulz
Exactly. Which means if Mazda are insistent on staying NA then 200bhp does seem accurate.
User avatar
By kingofdbrits
#3656934
Newannaive wrote:If they're tuning a 163bhp engine up to 200bhp, how much more will it take ? I guess there won't be much improvement to have other than sticking a turbo to it.
Mazda don't have a 2.3l 163bhp engine, most of the story is factually incorrect which is why it doesn't sound right. They do have a 185bhp derv in its ranks, which will be quicker than a 200bhp NA petrol so it won't exactly be it's flagship, which most VXR's/Sports/RS/Type R's are in their range.

Also a bit odd that if Ford with the same 2.3 turbo can tinker with it and produce 330bhp for the next RS (and i'll bet £10 it'll be in a decent tax band) yet Mazda can only aim for 200bhp? It'd be the mother of all own goals while shooting themselves in both feet if, as a company, Mazda already have a decent motor yet decide to remove the best bit from the car.

They'd be better spending development time on the rest of the car and leave the engine alone.

As for how much can the 2.3l take, Cosworth have used the unit, kept it NA and have made a respectable 280bhp.
User avatar
By EvoStu
#3657024
kingofdbrits wrote:
Newannaive wrote:If they're tuning a 163bhp engine up to 200bhp, how much more will it take ? I guess there won't be much improvement to have other than sticking a turbo to it.
Mazda don't have a 2.3l 163bhp engine, most of the story is factually incorrect which is why it doesn't sound right. They do have a 185bhp derv in its ranks, which will be quicker than a 200bhp NA petrol so it won't exactly be it's flagship, which most VXR's/Sports/RS/Type R's are in their range.

Also a bit odd that if Ford with the same 2.3 turbo can tinker with it and produce 330bhp for the next RS (and i'll bet £10 it'll be in a decent tax band) yet Mazda can only aim for 200bhp? It'd be the mother of all own goals while shooting themselves in both feet if, as a company, Mazda already have a decent motor yet decide to remove the best bit from the car.

They'd be better spending development time on the rest of the car and leave the engine alone.

As for how much can the 2.3l take, Cosworth have used the unit, kept it NA and have made a respectable 280bhp.
The article didn't mention a 2.3 litre 163bhp engine though. It mentions their 2.0 litre engine which could be tuned upto 200bhp.

And also you're comparing Fords turbos to Mazdas NA technology. Mazda can't hope to get close to a high power turbo if their aim is to stay NA.

If they can make the car light, then 200bhp and around 6.5 seconds to 60 then it's the class average.
User avatar
By kingofdbrits
#3657717
pulpmelon_r wrote:If the new 3MPS haz no tarbo, i'm out.

Pinning hopes and dreams on new Type R right now.
Possibly, though it'll probably be too hard for me if they keep banging on about that nurburgring place. I reckon its Focus RS next for me.
User avatar
By yella
#3657718
does this mean, when the new MPS and Type R come out we will see Danneth saying " Oh man sick of all these big horse power turbo Type R owners not getting that NA 200bhp rules"

whatever happens you can bet it will still be one ugly mother trucker.
User avatar
By kingofdbrits
#3657724
EvoStu wrote: The article didn't mention a 2.3 litre 163bhp engine though. It mentions their 2.0 litre engine which could be tuned upto 200bhp.

And also you're comparing Fords turbos to Mazdas NA technology. Mazda can't hope to get close to a high power turbo if their aim is to stay NA.

If they can make the car light, then 200bhp and around 6.5 seconds to 60 then it's the class average.
The article says a 163bhp engine, you're correct it doesn't say its 2.3l as i mis-read, but i still insist that Mazda doesn't have a 163bhp engine in any displacement and i'd like to think if anyone from Mazda was actually telling the world for the first time their big, clever idea that he'd get his facts right.

Also, no chance a modern car with a NA 2.0 will get to 60 in 6.5. The timed runs i've done with the car i have now are usually about that, i can try to destroy the drivetrain and match my best 4.93, but in reality i like to think the motoring community is beyond 0-60 times as a benchmark for a cars pace, and i can tell you a modern hatch this size with a NA 200bhp motor will get its ass handed to it by a Fiesta ST. Nevermind what the current MPS can do hanging with a Focus RS.

If it happens, it has to be the biggest backwards step in hot hatch history.
User avatar
By kingofdbrits
#3657728
yella wrote:does this mean, when the new MPS and Type R come out we will see Danneth saying " Oh man sick of all these big horse power turbo Type R owners not getting that NA 200bhp rules"

whatever happens you can bet it will still be one ugly mother trucker.
Doubt it, he'll probably have a newer version of another hot hatch in 5 years that will have more power than the new Type R. Though it looks likely it won't be in an MPS, you'll be hating on the next gen Leon Cupra R next.
User avatar
By yella
#3657730
kingofdbrits wrote:
yella wrote:does this mean, when the new MPS and Type R come out we will see Danneth saying " Oh man sick of all these big horse power turbo Type R owners not getting that NA 200bhp rules"

whatever happens you can bet it will still be one ugly mother trucker.
Doubt it, he'll probably have a newer version of another hot hatch in 5 years that will have more power than the new Type R. Though it looks likely it won't be in an MPS, you'll be hating on the next gen Leon Cupra R next.
not me i love the new Leon, although i do hate FWD cars now of course
User avatar
By kingofdbrits
#3657737
yella wrote:
kingofdbrits wrote:
yella wrote:does this mean, when the new MPS and Type R come out we will see Danneth saying " Oh man sick of all these big horse power turbo Type R owners not getting that NA 200bhp rules"

whatever happens you can bet it will still be one ugly mother trucker.
Doubt it, he'll probably have a newer version of another hot hatch in 5 years that will have more power than the new Type R. Though it looks likely it won't be in an MPS, you'll be hating on the next gen Leon Cupra R next.
not me i love the new Leon, although i do hate FWD cars now of course
snob.
User avatar
By pulpmelon_r
#3657758
kingofdbrits wrote:
pulpmelon_r wrote:If the new 3MPS haz no tarbo, i'm out.

Pinning hopes and dreams on new Type R right now.
Possibly, though it'll probably be too hard for me if they keep banging on about that nurburgring place. I reckon its Focus RS next for me.
The proposed new 4 cylider FRS or the previous 5 pot one?
User avatar
By karl
#3657810
kingofdbrits wrote:If it happens, it has to be the biggest backwards step in hot hatch history.
the FN2 still holds that crown
User avatar
By karl
#3657813
isn't the new FRS, oddly, using the old 2.3 MPS engine?

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