The largest Civic Type R club forum

[kingofdbrits]

I did 6 months traveling from northampton to nuneaton (110 miles a day) then half way through a 2 year job in Walsall (130 miles a day) i through my toys out the pram as I found the EP3 a poor car for long daily commutes, i could endure it for a year or so but after prolonged periods of motorway driving i started to hate the car as it was noisy and uncomfortable.

That's why i had a period of Diesel ownership, but i hated that more so i ordered an FN2 and was pleased to find the seats more supportive, better driving position with softer & more forgiving suspension so i found it much better on regular long drives.

[kingofdbrits]

How different we all are, I found the EP3 excellent on long drives, regular trips up north, 160 miles each way and I did a 5 hour drive to Wales in the EP3 no back problems, seats were awesome for me. (Not saying it had comfortable suspension on bad roads mind).

You quite tall ?

6'2

Short arse.

[Papillon]

How different we all are, I found the EP3 excellent on long drives, regular trips up north, 160 miles each way and I did a 5 hour drive to Wales in the EP3 no back problems, seats were awesome for me. (Not saying it had comfortable suspension on bad roads mind).

You quite tall ?

6'2

Short arse.

Freak.

[Ali]

Wrong. Double wishbones allow far greater compliance because you can have greater wheel travel without any disruption of the camber geometry. Wishbones make a better road car because handling and ride quality are far easier to combine. Ironically, torsion beams are fine for track use because track cars have ludicrously stiff suspension anyway, having no need to worry about road surface. Hell, you could nail the wheels to the chassis on a track car and still have decent handling.

So hang on........torsion beams are only good for track use? All the manufacturers who use torsion beam at the moment produce cars which ride perfectly fine and as Pap states (and I've said it lots before) the majority of drivers cannot tell the difference and quite frankly do not care.

Oh by the way I just specced up a Golf GTI to the same spec as my CW edition without any options above what are already standard on the CW.

Total: £26540.00 otr.

Read what's written, think, THEN reply. Wishbones are not only a track biased suspension, contrary to popular belief. They give the ability to have a far better ride while maintaining excellent geometry. Torsion beams are a far bigger compromise, you end up having to sacrifice one for the other. Ask a suspension engineer. I happen to be friends with one...

And I couldn't care what "normal" people can and can't tell the difference between because they buy Passat TDis and Corsas and are clearly idiots. The cars we're talking about are driven by far fussier people who can tell the difference. The Civic would be a better car for real world roads with wishbones all round, unless Honda don't possess an engineer capable of setting up decent geometry and wheel travel.

[smartie]

Wrong. Double wishbones allow far greater compliance because you can have greater wheel travel without any disruption of the camber geometry. Wishbones make a better road car because handling and ride quality are far easier to combine. Ironically, torsion beams are fine for track use because track cars have ludicrously stiff suspension anyway, having no need to worry about road surface. Hell, you could nail the wheels to the chassis on a track car and still have decent handling.

So hang on........torsion beams are only good for track use? All the manufacturers who use torsion beam at the moment produce cars which ride perfectly fine and as Pap states (and I've said it lots before) the majority of drivers cannot tell the difference and quite frankly do not care.

Oh by the way I just specced up a Golf GTI to the same spec as my CW edition without any options above what are already standard on the CW.

Total: £26540.00 otr.

Read what's written, think, THEN reply. Wishbones are not only a track biased suspension, contrary to popular belief. They give the ability to have a far better ride while maintaining excellent geometry. Torsion beams are a far bigger compromise, you end up having to sacrifice one for the other. Ask a suspension engineer. I happen to be friends with one...

And I couldn't care what "normal" people can and can't tell the difference between because they buy Passat TDis and Corsas and are clearly idiots. The cars we're talking about are driven by far fussier people who can tell the difference. The Civic would be a better car for real world roads with wishbones all round, unless Honda don't possess an engineer capable of setting up decent geometry and wheel travel.

I would wager 99% of people on here couldn't tell the difference.

[EvoStu]

I would wager 99% of people on here couldn't tell the difference.

EXACTLY! Ali misses this point completely.
Most of the people on here are normal drivers, they don't know about suspension setups etc. They simply buy cars because they like them.

[Ali]

Fair play. Next Civic might as well have leaf springs and a live rear axle because, you know, people just buy cars because they like them...

You realise you bought a car built by a firm that used to be known for its engineering excellence and forward thinking. Good times, those were. Now they're just producing run of the mill, mediocrely engineered, boxes. And people that are happy with cruddy rear suspension like a torsion beam are one of the reasons.

Any car enthusiast with even a modicum of knowledge and experience could tell the difference between the same car with and without wishbones.

[EvoStu]

Fair play. Next Civic might as well have leaf springs and a live rear axle because, you know, people just buy cars because they like them...

You realise you bought a car built by a firm that used to be known for its engineering excellence and forward thinking. Good times, those were. Now they're just producing run of the mill, mediocrely engineered, boxes. And people that are happy with cruddy rear suspension like a torsion beam are one of the reasons.

Any car enthusiast with even a modicum of knowledge and experience could tell the difference between the same car with and without wishbones.

You could argue the same about a lot of car makers mate including Subaru.

[Ali]

The Impreza uses a far more sophisticated rear end now than ever. The current STI uses the Legacy's multi link setup.

[EvoStu]

The Impreza uses a far more sophisticated rear end now than ever. The current STI uses the Legacy's multi link setup.

The current Impreza is arguably a worse car overall though. Your 330S and the JDM high spec versions are the exception.
Even you have slated the new Impreza WRX before you bought yours.

[Ali]

Because of Subaru's extremely poor decision to chase the premium market rather than provide what they always have, a different alternative. But that comes down to bushing, damper and spring settings, not suspension design. When optimised, it provides a far, far better set up for road use than any torsion beam would have allowed.

[thecompany]

Back on topic please, we lost track on page 2.

[Ali]

Not much point until they actually announce this non-existent car that Auto Express made up....

[EvoStu]

Not much point until they actually announce this non-existent car that Auto Express made up....

Its not made up mate. Honda told us at the institute that a budget has been set aside for a performance version.

[Papillon]

Not much point until they actually announce this non-existent car that Auto Express made up....

Its not made up mate. Honda told us at the institute that a budget has been set aside for a performance version.

Seems self-evident to me that they would. A performance hybrid? It'd be all over the media like a rash.

[J]

I have been hearing about a performance hybrid fron the Honda garages since I bought my civic back in 02

[Papillon]

And? They're now actually producing a hybrid that looks a little bit more than a Honda Insight, and in standard form goes a fair bit quicker than the Prius. You don't need to be a soothsayer to see that the next stage is making one that will at least have some decent performance figures.

[J]

Its nice to see after 8 years that they are now on track.

When is the 4wd version coming out.

[Ali]

Performance better than a Prius? Paps, I can cycle faster than a Prius.

The standard CR-Z is being quoted in the JDM brochure as 0-60 in 9.8 secs from it's 1.5l hybrid engine and all the complexity that entails. I seem to remember that the EG Civic 1.5LSi had exactly the same performance figures without the complexity, without even VTEC, in 1992. I have to wonder if the extra weight of the IMA gubbins and the battery storage wasn't there, would the engine on it's own be just as quick? Is the rush to make a "desirable" hybrid just causing them to add more weight which, perversely, needs the extra hybrid power to move it around?

As for the first performance hybrid, they better be quick. Both Ford and Mitsubishi are going to use hybrid running gear in the next RS and Evo XI, and they won't be dawdling from 0-60 in a yawn inducing 9.8 seconds. Bizarrely, using electric rear hubs and an otherwise FWD drivetrain to give 4wd. An idea that Honda Germany showed in a concept car nearly 8 years ago. I guess Honda Japan weren't paying attention...

[smartie]

The 911 racing hybrid with a kers style system looks awesome. 163 extra BHP for 8 seconds.