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Those Complete Power Boosting & Drivetrain Mods..
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User avatar
By EvoStu
#92140
This is from StanWan.

Good Post mate.

This is my first section. It is arguably the most important. It won't matter how much power you are getting in your CTR if you can't control the car properly.

Geomerty tuning is also the cheapest mod too!

It seems that a lot of CTRs have incorrect geometry settings which can make the car spin very easily. Get it checked using a proper 4 wheel alignment centre. 2 wheel is not enough.

Some definitions:

Caster angle - This is the angle of the steering axis tilt.

Camber angle- this is vertical splay angle of the wheel.

Toe angle - longitudinal splay of wheels.

Unfortunately, the CTRs suspension is not easily adjusted. Of all the above factors, only toe is adjustable. Camber can be adjusted with the use of camber bolts.

There are no ideal setttings - it all depends on your driving style and the roads you drive on. Satisfactory results can be obtained by altering the camber and toe.

Camber dictates the vertical splay of the wheel. Negative camber means the bottom of the wheel tucks out. Positive camber causes the bottom of the wheel to poke out.

Negative camber improves the contact patch when cornering. Too much can reduce traction in a straight line and increase tyre wear at the inner shoulders.

Toe angle describes the longitudinal angle of the wheel at its leading edge, closest to the front of the car

Toe-out splays the wheels outwards. At the front, this helps to increase turn in sharpness, but can make the front end more lively when cruising.
Toe-in increases cruising stability and dulls turn-in.

At the rear, toe-out helps the car oversteer and reduces back end stability. Toe in increases stability. FWD tend to be setup with rear toe-in to stop snap oversteer.

So armed with this knowledge, you should be able to decide how u want your car setup. You'll just have to experiment. Remember that more extreme alignment setups will decrease tyre life.

I myself run on neg camber (1 deg) all round to help stability and toe-in (1mm)the rear to make the back end more progressive. The dull steering is improved massively with some toe-out (1mm) but you need to be concentrating when driving....

THe above is good for a general road setup and gives me a sporty drive, without being too uncompromising.

Stanwan.
User avatar
By stanwan
#92211
Honda's K20A engine is a technicle marvel. Pumping out almost 110 bhp per litre (in jap tune), from just two litres. Not only does this engine feature multiple cam profiles (vtec) it also has variable intake cam timing allowing excellent low down torque (unlike the s2000).

THe UK CTR has a "detuned" version of the K20A engine -the K20A2. The UK CTR produces less power, but better torque. It does not rev as high and also has a more restrictive emissions system.

The K20A2 also differs internally, having less wild cams, lower compression pistons, lower-rpm optimes intake tract and the absence of a slip differential. It also has a lighter flywheel.

The K20A2 runs a little rich in stock form. This means that increasing intake efficiency can improve power. Cold air intakes work well as they do not suck in under-bonnet heat. Short ram intakes benfit from heatshields or cold-air ducting.

The aforementioned intakes can seem to reduce throttle response. Using a sealed cold airbox gives you excellent throttle response and more power. You won't get more than 10 bhp with a CAI/airbox if you're lucky.

The K20A2 exhaust is quite good, and replacing it won't help power much at all. You will need a larger diameter if you plan to tune it further though. 2.25 to 2.5 maximum unless you want to use forced induction... Good for about 5 bhp

The manifold and cat are very restrictive. However a decat pipe won't help that much. You need a proper longtube manifold which replaces the cat. The UK car must meet stricter emissions laws for 2005, and loses power as a result. Using a manifold will make from 10-15 bhp.

An ECU retune is probably required after the manifold to account for increased scavenging. All in (intake/manifld/exhaust/ecu) will leave with about 220-225 bhp max.

Uprated cams which feature higherlift and duration will help a lot from here on. Jap J20A cams will increase bhp (with ecu retunes) to about 235-240 bhp. TODA spec A improve on the K20A cams to 250 bhp and have better torque from low-mid revs. Cat Cams 902 have even better low down- but lose about 5-10 bhp compared to TODA As. TODA cams also require stronger valvesprings to allow a safe 9000 rpm re limit.

You can then help breathing a little more by adding a jap intake manifold and a larger throttle body. Makes a small difference and increases high rpm efficiency.

Getting over 265 bhp on a stock head in naturally aspirated form is going to be difficult. None produces cams at present which take advantage of cyl head work. Besides, there is no more room on the piston to accommodate bigger cams. From here its expensive forged pistons and the like...

That's 221 bhp per ton on a CTR

THe mods also increase torque by about 20%. Coupled with CTRs short gearing and light weight, makes this a very rapid car. Addition of a lightweight flywheel helps a lot too.
User avatar
By TheRedBaron
#92360
was this a cut and paste job

if not what a great post!
User avatar
By Wheelyking
#92460
Finally, someone who seems to have pasted all the info and put it in one bible, well done Stan, one thing though,
i have been led to believe that the CTR is good for 9000rpm on std. valve springs. It's recommended that when switching to TODA cams then uprated valves are a must, but you can get away with std. springs when switching to DC5 cams.

Well done Stan

:wink:

Al
User avatar
By stanwan
#93406
These postings are an amalgamation of all my knowledge gained from a lot of honda tuning sites- what works , what does not.

I believe the K20 enige was released in 2 phases. Early phases had dual valvesprings, later version have single valvesprings. I also believe the springs were uprated later due to the fact that many people (americans) who were not used to manual shifts, were blowing engines by over-revving

THis usually happens when chaning down to aggressively i.e. 4th to 2nd at high rpm. The higher grade springs can take higher rpm before the valves float and smack the pistons/each other.

I beleive that the K20 has different intake and exhasut valve springs.

TODA cams have more agressive lift and longer duration. The cam profile is also more agressive. The uprated springs are there to cope with increased valve motion and speed. Using the wrong springs may damage the valves/cams.

CAT cams and DC5 (JDM CTR/ITR) cams can be used with standard springs. In fact the stiffer toda springs are said to sap a bit of power but facilitate safer high rpms.
User avatar
By stanwan
#93967
What is chipping?

Chipping is usually linked to some sort of modification of the cars performance. The term came into use when electronic fuel injection was introduced. Modication of the EFI engines required some kind of electronic hack to alter performance.

Nowadays the term is used loosely to describe a modded vehicle.

How do we go about it then? Well the CTR has a complicated OBDII ECU which is difficult to work on. Luckily there a ways around this:

Air-Fuel controllers such as HKS & Apexi AFC intercept sensor signals, allowing alteration of the A/F ratio. As we all know, the CTR runs a little rich, hence leaning out the engine will release a bit more power.

While A/F controllers are good for lighlty modded car, they are no good for major mods where the fuelling needs to be radically altered.

Don't assume that A/F controllers are no use. More advanced types of AF controller have inbuilt ECus which allow full fuel curve tuning.

What AF controllers do not do is alter the ignition timing. Advancing the ignition can create more power by sparking earlier and increasing cylinder pressure. The problem is that by advancing ignition/timing is the increased likelihood of detonation/knock which can be catastrophic for an engine.

The HKS FCON and UNICHIP can alter both ignition and fuelling by directly manipulating existing maps in the ECU. THe ECU itself remains unaltered. Hence these chips are also referred to as piggyback ECUs. These need to specialist tuned as you will destroy your car if you don't know what you are doing.

HKS produce pre-programmed maps (like lancaster honda's) for plug and play purposes. These are often installed with specific mods such as intake and exhaust. Modules can be purchased for piggyback ECUs which allow greater control and flexibility, such as altered vtec actuation.

You can also opt for a fully independant ECU upgrade which ditches the std ECU, such as AEMs and a motec. While these are great for racecars, where aircon and lights are not so important, they might lack the abilty to control the more mundane features of your motor. Remember the ECU controls almost everything.

Standalone ECUs require much more setup time in general, and cost a lot more. Some may require dedicated sensors too. The CTR ECU is highly specific for ivtec and a standalone may not have the abilty to control it properly.

This vrings us to the hacked ECU. Hondata have managed to hack the firmware of honda ECU and reflash it, allowing them to control nearly all ECU parameters. THe adavantage of this is that non of the original ECU functions are lost. Cam timing can also be altered, as well as raising the rev limit and altering vtec actuation.

Altering cam timing and vtec actuation have great benefits for modded engines. The former can help squeeze more power out the engine by adavancing the intake cam, and increase low end torque. The latter can remove the torque dip during vtec engagement, giving smoother power delivery. Hondata's work looks very promising
User avatar
By TheRedBaron
#94245
yeah cheers stanwan just what ive been waiting for!
User avatar
By stanwan
#101417
So what parts do you buy first? Well here's how i would do it....

1. Intake - good gains for little money. Go for sealed/heatshielded airbox.

2. Longtube Manifold & decat - gives excellent gains with the intake

3. Cams - TODA spec a/b/c; CAT Spot 902; Honda DC5R cams

4. ECU retune - Needed to make the most of the above mods.

You should be running at 240-250 bhp already, not bad at all!!
To get max power on the existing cylinder head (about 10-15 bhp extra max) will take a lot more work.

5. Throttle body & intake manifold, cat-back exhaust - frees up the breathing even more for more top-end power. Notice that the std exhaust is actually pretty good. A cat-back will only produce a nicer and little bhp gain.

6. Peripheral stuff - Prevent power loss from heat-soak. Wrap all the intake tracts with heat-insulator, insulate the intake manifold with a hondata gasket, ceramic coat the intake. Watch for heat soak from the radiator to the intake manifold. Use low temp thermos and switches. Wrap your aftermarket manifold. Heat soak cost between 10-15bhp!

7. Ground wires, new sparks etc - minimal gains from these, use if you run out of options!


So by stage 7 you have roughly 255-265 bhp from this engine if you are lucky, and its a cold day. what now?

8. Gas flowed & ported head - increases flow to allow better breathing for high bhp at high rpm. You may lose torque, but will be able to break the 265bhp ceiling.

9. Thinner head gasket - be careful here, high lift cams may cause piston-valve contact.

10. custom high comp pistons forged, with con-rods etc - now we are getting serious.

11. Custom billet cams, Accord block (2.4l), custom forged crank - we are talking silly money here but if you want 300bhp and 200 lb/ft this is the way to go. Most aftermarket cams will give 260bhp max as they are limited by the engines compression ratio and the cylinder head.

12 you want to stop properly now- call AP/brembo for some new discs and calipers.

13. You need better suspension now - JIC FLTA2/TOda fightex/Tein are all good

14. chassis bracing - gotta kee p the engine attached to the chassis.

At the end fof all this you'll have a superfast hatch, and be £30,000 poorer (not including car).
Of course , you could go turbo or nos. In that case, save 30,000 for maintainance.... you'll need it.

Just out of interest, would anybody out there want to buy a turbocharged honda from a boy-racer? Keep it Normally aspirated, and its easier to conceal...
Last edited by stanwan on Fri Jul 04, 2003 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By NMP
#101423
Absolutely superb info mate... much appreciated :wink:
User avatar
By iceman
#113628
quick question - jdm ctr running on uk 95 ron fuel - i/h/e and chipped/setup properly.

what hp output is likely to be achieved.
User avatar
By stanwan
#113797
It depends on your i/h/e setup, exhaust manifold and ECU. If you are running the standard manifold and rev-limit, max power will be 240 bhp. The JDM version has a better manifold than the UK spec, and makes more power as a result. You also have .5 greater C/R good for 5 bhp!

Raising the rev-limit and using a decatting longtube race manifold should net u another 20 bhp @ 8600 rpm
User avatar
By iceman
#113826
wow, id be more than happy with 240 hp. i probably should have been clearer. ie

jdm ctr - put on aem cai, spoon manifold, spoon n1 catback, dastek unichip setup (want a cat for mot reasons and little noise suppression and i know i would loose some bhp but not that bothered). total output would be on 95 ron fuel ? also wouldnt mind raising rev limit a little but maintaining everyday driveability and reliability is essential ?

uk ctr - same as above ?

last question - are jdm and u.k rev limit the same and would all the parts mentioned be really worthwile in terms of value for money (ie spoon manifold really that much better than jdm ?
User avatar
By LPitt
#113893
ICEMAN: Do you have a JDM CTR then?

If so I would have thought it used SUL or Optimax rather than NUL. Although the CTR is my first introduction into the world of Honda performance I have had other (turbo) Jap cars before and it was always the case that because Japan has 100RON fuel they need at least SUL to work properly over here and in some cases even this had to be supplemented with octane booster to get it all working at optimum.

In fact, with some of the JDM scoobies there can be serious engine problems caused by using NUL for extended periods (known as chocolate pistons I believe!).

Laurence[/i]
User avatar
By iceman
#113989
no, aint got ctr but likely to be next car. just gettin info for now. i know about 100 ron jap fuel and using optimax but if i were to get 1 imported i would have engine/ecu retuned to work with u.k fuel. thing that gets me most how much more comes with jdm. u.k superb until you find out how much more comes with jdm h.i.d lamps, lsd, more power, stiffer suspension + ae30 bits are standard on jdm. theres also good chance osfsourcing 1 with few aftermarket parts. :wink:

then theres the downside which are very few - hassle of gettin 1, parts if they go wrong, higher insurance etc. :?

anyway at the mo i would love just u.k 1 but cant afford yet. :cry: hope to get good info of here and stanwan has already given great info.
User avatar
By Tarzi
#114010
Stanwan, you said in your great and very informative post above:
The K20A2 also differs internally, having less wild cams, lower compression pistons, lower-rpm optimes intake tract and the absence of a slip differential. It also has a lighter flywheel.

Is this true or is it just me as I've always thought that JDM EP3 R had the lighter flywheel?
Anyway, thanks for these great threads, they're superb!
User avatar
By stanwan
#114351
Sorry. my mistake/typo! JDM CTR might have a lighter flywheel.

THe ECU on the JDM CTR is setup to use 100 RON fuel, using 95 RON will cause low-rev detonation (definitely not good). Fortunately, the ECU knock sensor will detect this and retard the iginition, usually causing power loss.

I think hondata found this when tuning their JDM ecu, the engine would pink when in lean-burn mode.

Best thing to do is use optimax and get the ignition and fuelling sorted out. If you break anything on the JDM CTR it's going to be a pain to get replacement parts. You might also want to underseal the car.
User avatar
By jugjug
#264166
I saw stanwan suggested air filter and exhaust manifold cat replacemnet can you let me konow which ones because i was just about to order a toda can you let me konow

cheers mate
User avatar
By tut
#357169
Stanwan

Having joined the Forum yesterday, this was exactly the sort of condensed information on upgrading that I was looking for.

I have an Elise, but it is away at the moment having a JDM engine, 6 speed C/R gearbox and all ancillaries fitted. The flywheel is about half the weight of the UK, LSD is standard, and the other differences are as you describe. The output of 220hp is given on Jap 100 RON, you lose around 5hp having to run on our 98, ie Optimax. I have bought a case of Octane booster that will take it up by 3 to 101 RON for the track.

In my Elise it should produce around 230hp, as I have a freeflow S/S exhaust, no CAT, and a Piper air intake system is part of the conversion. I should have it back next week, and the first upgrade that I will look at was going to be the Hondata flash to the JDM ECU, but having read advice on here, that may now well be Dastek's Unichip instead, especially as it includes the setting up on the R/R, and a dealer is about to open in Aberdeen.

Cheers

tut
User avatar
By Dill
#395984
I have heard about reseting ECU's on higher octane fuel, do you know if it works, or if its a load of bolx???
Its supposed to work like this,

1 Run till nearly empty, then fill a couple of times with 98 RON fuel

2 Now reset your ECU, this is supposed to re-adjust itself to the higher octane fuel, (advance ignition timing etc i think)

Now you're supposed to get marginally more power! Obviously keeping on Shell optimax (98 RON)

Like I said I've heard about this, Is it true though?

Long time ago I had and Ep3 for 220k kilometers in[…]