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Those Complete Power Boosting & Drivetrain Mods..
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User avatar
By mezmo
#3848492
Really looking to get a set of these this year all being well. Don't wanna go boosted because I've already had a JRSC on my civic and would like to keep it all motor.

Is there anyone on here who has driven an EP3 with ITB's that can give me their opinion of what it was like? I'm sticking to a 2ltr lump for the conversion.

Ta
User avatar
By w6ady
#3848494
Don't think you will gain much if any power with them but the noise and throttle response will be incredible. I read somewhere a post from tdi north which basically said the gains would be the equivalent to the best 70mm inlet manifold, with 70mm throttle body and induction kit but with instant throttle response and a quality soundtrack. I would love ITB's but the costs are hard to stomach for me.
User avatar
By mezmo
#3848499
I have to be honest that is the only thing that plays on my mind, the cost. Not the actual cost itself, but the same power can more or less be achieved with decent intake etc. for cheaper.

However, that noise!!!!

It would be used as a weekend car, and I really want a high spec NA engine. Especially as they're not in production anymore. I like turbos and my JRSC car was great, but you can't beat a screaming high revving NA monster!

I'd need injectors with the ITB's too. Anyone have any idea on price of the injectors?
User avatar
By Lewisgame
#3848501
Big money building a high powered N/A engine. No point in putting the bodies on without doing some serious engine work. You'd want at least some stage 2/3 cams and a really good exhaust manifold and system to compliment the bodies. Still you'd only see 260-280bhp before having to build a bottom end.
I'd love to do the same and go for that magic 300bhp figure from a 2 litre N/A engine. But for the same money you can go turbo and have 400bhp plus. It's hard to justify the cost. Good to be a little different though.
User avatar
By w6ady
#3848510
I must admit for me if I could afford it I would build a n/a engine with itb's as that's what a type r should be in my opinion. Don't get me wrong I understand people want more power cheaper but there is so many other cars out there that are turbo'd or supercharged out of the box and that's what makes a type r different except the new one of course :lol:
User avatar
By mezmo
#3848514
Yeah, I understand the most ill likely get with a 2ltr lump with cams and good supporting mods is a max of 270 ish (if I'm lucky).

However as mentioned, the ep3 in my opinion should be n/a all day long. I'd love a really high spec one.

If I get cams at the same time as the ITB's, I'm guessing that would make more sense as the price for tuning would cover both.
User avatar
By w6ady
#3848528
Yeah definately cams at the same time as you say just get it tuned once as it will be cheaper. Make sure you get a 3" catback as that seems to yield gains on the k20 too. Do you have any engine mods at the moment? If I was just starting out I would get the itb's without a second thought! But as I already have rbc, teg m etc i can't justify the cost for little gains. If you do go ahead please put up some vids to make me jealous of that sound :lol: You asked about injectors grab yourself a set of grams ones I think they are around the £320 mark. The cheaper option is RDX injectors around £230 which would be perfect but there has been a few cases of dodgy ones which tuners and sellers are looking into at the moment. After all the issues with them I would advise you to tread carefully if you go down that route only buy Honda ones in proper Honda boxes and the genuine Toyota clips to go with them. I have had a bit of an issue with these injectors luckily I haven't fitted them before I noticed a problem and its in the process of being sorted out. Hope this helps mate.
User avatar
By Wingnuttzz
#3848530
Image

I ran Toda ITBs on my DC5. The noise was insane, and the throttle response was brilliant. However get it mapped by someone who knows what they are doing. Mine was mapped by Russ @ HQ Garage and it was horrific, it lurched at low revs, overfueling, spluttered etc. Get it mapped by someone who knows ITBs and K20's, Paul @ TDi is the only person i'd use for this, and you'll love it.
User avatar
By mezmo
#3848557
w6ady wrote:Yeah definately cams at the same time as you say just get it tuned once as it will be cheaper. Make sure you get a 3" catback as that seems to yield gains on the k20 too. Do you have any engine mods at the moment? If I was just starting out I would get the itb's without a second thought! But as I already have rbc, teg m etc i can't justify the cost for little gains. If you do go ahead please put up some vids to make me jealous of that sound :lol: You asked about injectors grab yourself a set of grams ones I think they are around the £320 mark. The cheaper option is RDX injectors around £230 which would be perfect but there has been a few cases of dodgy ones which tuners and sellers are looking into at the moment. After all the issues with them I would advise you to tread carefully if you go down that route only buy Honda ones in proper Honda boxes and the genuine Toyota clips to go with them. I have had a bit of an issue with these injectors luckily I haven't fitted them before I noticed a problem and its in the process of being sorted out. Hope this helps mate.
Thanks mate that's lots of help. Basic engine mods at the moment. Toda manifold, Spoon b pipe and N1, Injen cai. Will the Spoon B pip be restrictive?

Added in 2 minutes 45 seconds:
Wingnuttzz wrote:Image

I ran Toda ITBs on my DC5. The noise was insane, and the throttle response was brilliant. However get it mapped by someone who knows what they are doing. Mine was mapped by Russ @ HQ Garage and it was horrific, it lurched at low revs, overfueling, spluttered etc. Get it mapped by someone who knows ITBs and K20's, Paul @ TDi is the only person i'd use for this, and you'll love it.
Did it sound that good mate? Could you give me a full list of your mods mate or a link please?

What horse power and torque did yours make and was it quick?

Cheers buddy
User avatar
By Lewisgame
#3848559
Spoon system isn't the best for gains and as you probably know they're pretty loud.
Ideally you want at least a 2.5inch system. 3 inch will give more gains but you'll have to be extra careful going over speed humps if you're low.
User avatar
By Wingnuttzz
#3848590
Here is my build thread.
http://www.itr-dc5.com/forum/index.php? ... wingnuttzz

It sound sound incredible, really did roar at the top end. Don't make the mistake of going for a very loud exhaust though, i had a 3" cat back and it almost drowned out the ITB noise.

My mods were
Toda ITBs with ITG filter
RDX Injectors
PLM Tri-Y Manifold
3" Cat back

Mine never had a brilliant map on it, but it still made 200 at the wheels, so its on par with at he fly rating of normal mods. It was very quick, it did really pull to the red line very very quickly. Was it any quicker, i'm not sure as where I could hit the limiter at Knockhill before I couldn't now but the rev limit was approx 400rpm higher on the ITB setup compared to what it was before.

Would I do it again, without a doubt, with a sensible exhaust (TDI 3"??), and mapped by someone who knows what they are doing - Paul @ TDi.
User avatar
By mezmo
#3848629
Wingnuttzz wrote:Here is my build thread.
http://www.itr-dc5.com/forum/index.php? ... wingnuttzz

It sound sound incredible, really did roar at the top end. Don't make the mistake of going for a very loud exhaust though, i had a 3" cat back and it almost drowned out the ITB noise.

My mods were
Toda ITBs with ITG filter
RDX Injectors
PLM Tri-Y Manifold
3" Cat back

Mine never had a brilliant map on it, but it still made 200 at the wheels, so its on par with at he fly rating of normal mods. It was very quick, it did really pull to the red line very very quickly. Was it any quicker, i'm not sure as where I could hit the limiter at Knockhill before I couldn't now but the rev limit was approx 400rpm higher on the ITB setup compared to what it was before.

Would I do it again, without a doubt, with a sensible exhaust (TDI 3"??), and mapped by someone who knows what they are doing - Paul @ TDi.
Amazing build mate. Did you not use any aftermarket cams?
User avatar
By Wingnuttzz
#3848635
Stripped all the engine mods back to standard and sold the car mate. I completely lost the love for it after the mapper did such a poor job of it and I got nowhere with them afterwords.

If I were to have kept it and I would have put cams in it to make the best of the ITB's, TDI's drop ins or Drag Cartel 2.2's with a fully build head (ported and polished, new valves springs and retainers).
User avatar
By MrHanky
#3848707
Will be going the ITB route with my EP3 shortly. Have always wanted to have the sound from ITB's and finally im in a position where I can give it a go.
Stevie at Grinspeed has my set with him already as well as the other parts required to install this particular kit (modified water pump housing, alternator, RDX injectors). I currently have Spoon B pipe, N1 exhaust and DC5 header but will be swapping the header for a DC Sports one I have in my garage.
Yes this will be a costly exercise but im really looking forward to the throttle response and sound.

Im just debating whether to try and get cams for this now as well or to wait a year or so and then do it along with engine internals as im looking at this as a long term project. With current cost I cant really go for much so best I could really hope for is a set of DC5 cams for now. Still investigating so I will have to see what I can find out.

Previously had a DC5 with Kpro, RBC etc and power wise I wont be getting any more than I had previously based on what im currently going for but it will be interesting to compare for me nonetheless.

Hopefully should be going to Stevie at the start of February so I will get some videos and thoughts on it once back.

Thanks

Mark
User avatar
By mezmo
#3848854
MrHanky wrote:Will be going the ITB route with my EP3 shortly. Have always wanted to have the sound from ITB's and finally im in a position where I can give it a go.
Stevie at Grinspeed has my set with him already as well as the other parts required to install this particular kit (modified water pump housing, alternator, RDX injectors). I currently have Spoon B pipe, N1 exhaust and DC5 header but will be swapping the header for a DC Sports one I have in my garage.
Yes this will be a costly exercise but im really looking forward to the throttle response and sound.

Im just debating whether to try and get cams for this now as well or to wait a year or so and then do it along with engine internals as im looking at this as a long term project. With current cost I cant really go for much so best I could really hope for is a set of DC5 cams for now. Still investigating so I will have to see what I can find out.

Previously had a DC5 with Kpro, RBC etc and power wise I wont be getting any more than I had previously based on what im currently going for but it will be interesting to compare for me nonetheless.

Hopefully should be going to Stevie at the start of February so I will get some videos and thoughts on it once back.

Thanks

Mark
Be interesting to see what power you make with the N1.

Added in 3 minutes 37 seconds:
Lewisgame wrote:Spoon system isn't the best for gains and as you probably know they're pretty loud.
Ideally you want at least a 2.5inch system. 3 inch will give more gains but you'll have to be extra careful going over speed humps if you're low.
Will a 3 inch exhaust really make that much difference on a n/a set up that is realistically going to make somewhere in the region of 250-270 bhp? Know they make a difference on 300bhp boosted set ups but will it make that much difference on a n/a set up?
User avatar
By MrHanky
#3848868
Yep I'm also curious. Like you I thought the larger exhaust diameter would only really make much of a difference on say a boosted K20.
Will find out soon enough though as car is booked in for 2nd week in Feb.
User avatar
By Lewisgame
#3848874
I think TDI North had some comparisons a while back on either an EP3 or DC5 showing the extra gains of a 3inch cat back. As much as 10bhp top end iirc.
User avatar
By Wingnuttzz
#3848880
There have been noticeable improvements with 3" exhausts even on NA cars. Lots of information on this.
User avatar
By MrHanky
#3848898
Can't do much at this time anyway so will save that thought for next year when I look to do cams.
User avatar
By mezmo
#3849195
So what will your full spec be mate once you get these ITB's fitted?

And what brand are the ITB's?

Cheers fella

Long time ago I had and Ep3 for 220k kilometers in[…]