Civic Type-R Owners Club & Forum

Hi all just thought id drop a quick post to say that ive had a aem v2 on my car for a few months, I loved the sound of it but car didnt really seem to run/idle very well with it on and hammered fuel aswell, so decided to put standard airbox back on with the added addition of the hondata airbox modification and a K&N panel filter, and ok it doesnt sound quite as good but my god it runs and drives so much better almost unbelievable to be honest, i must have just got used to the v2 and not noticed how shite and sluggish the car was with it on probably caused by heat soak id imagine lol. So for anybody ithinking of buying a V2, i take back all the good things ive previously said as they are total shite and its standard airbox all the way for me and for anybody with a V2 fitted id suggest trying your old standard box again as you may have forgot how responsive it was beforehand. IM sure people will argue this but in my oppinion apart from the noise theire sh-t. Ive got a supersprint stainless mid section anyway so sounds ok to be fair, Hope this saves someone a few quid and if your not aware of the airbox mod just search for it as there is a post on it somewhere regards, MATT

I agree 100%...I had an oem airbox and hondata mod/K+N drop in...I would definitely have that over and above ANY open cone induction kit. :thumbup:

cheers matey a bit of back up on this lol open cone filters are pants, if I was loaded id pay for all the people that disagree to have a rolling road test before and after v2 fitted just to prove they pointless, if anything id say you lose noticable bhp with open cone :WOOT

matthewsimone wrote:cheers matey a bit of back up on this lol open cone filters are pants, if I was loaded id pay for all the people that disagree to have a rolling road test before and after v2 fitted just to prove they pointless, if anything id say you lose noticable bhp with open cone :WOOT

I'd say on a dyno with the bonnet open and the fan blowing you would see a gain with it...but day to day, they suck!

yeah possibly but who drives with the bonnet open and a constant wind speed of around 80mph, i still think mine is more responsive with standard box even if doing 70mph in 6th and put foot down, Open cone is no good on ctr as engine compartment is just to enclosed to get any real air flow going even with a extra cold air feed its just not enough. Maybe if you took grill out or sumit it would be a little better but would look lame lol. ive never really been into induction kits to be honest the gains are too small for the cash you shell out better off just modding standard systems on most cars anyway and panel filters :salut:

you are right but if someone wishes to modify their car then the oem airbox will be restrictive. On a mildly modified ctr though the oem box is much better than a V2 or similar design imo...I had my hondata mod/K+N on for around 20k miles, mapped by tdi north with kpro. Only just recently have I changed to an ITG and spoon b-pipe for that little bit extra. :thumbup:

yes mate i suppose id have to agree with that, just depends what level of modding your into i suppose but going to mad on modding a ctr is also kinda pointless as may as well just buy a quicker 4wd car to start with, Im suprised this post hasnt been flooded with comments though lol

Been saying this for years, but people won't listen

Open cone filters are sh-t and reduce power when the bonnet is closed.

*cough* ABP motorsport *cough* WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW?

great sticky. :salut:

Evilowl are open cone filters crap for all cars or just the ctr?

All the cars that you drive that are fitted with bonnets, yes to an extent. It depends where the filter is located. Some can be mounted behind the grille (eg Subaru Impreza) or a headlight with a nice airflow, and some of the effects can be mitigated with a good short run of cold air feed but it does not help in all cases.

Any that are located close to really hot engine components like the exhaust manifold are going to suck balls, heatshield or not. A sealed box is far superior for these types of applications (eg CTR)

evilowl wrote:All the cars that you drive that are fitted with bonnets, yes to an extent. It depends where the filter is located. Some can be mounted behind the grille (eg Subaru Impreza) or a headlight with a nice airflow, and some of the effects can be mitigated with a good short run of cold air feed but it does not help in all cases.

Any that are located close to really hot engine components like the exhaust manifold are going to suck balls, heatshield or not. A sealed box is far superior for these types of applications (eg CTR)

I see. I've got a Gruppe M anyway, was just wondering because quite a few of my mates have open cones. :thumbup:

This post is great lol glad the truth about how shite the open cone filters really are is out in the open lol abp comment was funny as fook

evilowl wrote:Open cone filters are sh-t and reduce power when the bonnet is closed.

*cough* ABP motorsport *cough* WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW?

You wanna get that cough looked at Evilowl, i've heard there's a nasty bout of talkingbollocksosis going around....

We accept that any open cone filters can suffer from heatsoak issues when a car is stationary or at low speeds under certain weather conditions but you cannot simply claim that open filters are sh*t and reduce power when bonnets are closed

Maybe K&N, HKS, BLITZ, AEM, PIPERCROSS, INJEN, etc etc know f*ck all about developing performance filter kits and your expertise is wasted until you launch your own personal range of EVIL Air Filters? Closely followed i'm sure by EVIL brakes, EVIL tyres, EVIL suspension...........

Heatsoak will only ever effect cars during hot weather or when a vehicle is driving below 20mph. AEM along with other leading filter manufacturers have done enough testing over the years (using qualified engineers as opposed to internet keyboard engineers) to prove this over & over again.

Any additional form of cold air ducting or heat shields will obviously have its benefits, just as heat wrapping a TODA or DC Sports header will but that doesn't make either TODA or DC Sports sh*t does it?

Don't forget, get to the doctors for that cough

Chris
ABP

the only way to show proof of a filters benefit is on a dyno where results are not a true representation of how the car will perform on the road in all conditions. So that only really leaves the opinions of the customer, which has lead to this thread.

ABP MOTORSPORT wrote:

evilowl wrote:Open cone filters are sh-t and reduce power when the bonnet is closed.

*cough* ABP motorsport *cough* WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW?

You wanna get that cough looked at Evilowl, i've heard there's a nasty bout of talkingbollocksosis going around....

We accept that any open cone filters can suffer from heatsoak issues when a car is stationary or at low speeds under certain weather conditions but you cannot simply claim that open filters are sh*t and reduce power when bonnets are closed

Maybe K&N, HKS, BLITZ, AEM, PIPERCROSS, INJEN, etc etc know f*ck all about developing performance filter kits and your expertise is wasted until you launch your own personal range of EVIL Air Filters? Closely followed i'm sure by EVIL brakes, EVIL tyres, EVIL suspension...........

Heatsoak will only ever effect cars during hot weather or when a vehicle is driving below 20mph. AEM along with other leading filter manufacturers have done enough testing over the years (using qualified engineers as opposed to internet keyboard engineers) to prove this over & over again.

Any additional form of cold air ducting or heat shields will obviously have its benefits, just as heat wrapping a TODA or DC Sports header will but that doesn't make either TODA or DC Sports sh*t does it?

Don't forget, get to the doctors for that cough

Chris
ABP

well said :thumbup:

I have wrapped my v2 induction pipe with thermo tech bought from Deamon tweaks and made a non restrictive heat shield out of 6mm alluminium. I have also fitted a cold air feed to the heat shield. This has all but elimanated the heat soak issues. My car runs fine, no bogging down after being sat in heavy traffic and it idles fine. However it is winter now so I shall see how it is affected in the summer. If it's pants I will buy a gruppe m! But for now it is fine and definately better than the standard box.

ABP MOTORSPORT wrote:We accept that any open cone filters can suffer from heatsoak issues when a car is stationary or at low speeds under certain weather conditions but you cannot simply claim that open filters are sh*t and reduce power when bonnets are closed

So after a nice long spirited run I can immediately stop and open my bonnet and everything will be nice and cool to the touch will it?

Physics lesson part 1 - What does warm air do? It rises. What stops the warm air rising? The bonnet.

ABP MOTORSPORT wrote:Maybe K&N, HKS, BLITZ, AEM, PIPERCROSS, INJEN, etc etc know f*ck all about developing performance filter kits

Companies like that develop products for a wide range of cars and simply adapt them for different applications. What works for one car, works for all right?

ABP MOTORSPORT wrote:Heatsoak will only ever effect cars during hot weather or when a vehicle is driving below 20mph.

I refer you back to my above statement. How does the excess heat at the rear of the engine bay escape, at whatever speed the car is doing? The answer is simple my learned friend. It doesn't.

Why do car manufacturers put radiators at the front of the engine? Funnily enough for cooling purposes. I bet if you were designing a car you would put the radiator next to the exhaust manifold right at the back of the engine bay

ABP MOTORSPORT wrote:AEM along with other leading filter manufacturers have done enough testing over the years (using qualified engineers as opposed to internet keyboard engineers) to prove this over & over again.

I suspect many of them employ lots of sales and marketing people as well. I guess they do their jobs better than their engineers, because there is no shortage of people who fall for the marketing bollox :salut:

I have two challenges for you Chris - firstly show me a picture of an engine bay of a competition car (BTCC, WTCC, DTM, WRC, FIA GT etc) where they use an open cone air filter.

Here's a photo I took in 2006 of a DTM car (click to enlarge). Show me where the HKS open cone filter is? Because all I can see is a whacking great closed box



and here's another (click to enlarge as well):



Oh look, yet again not a Pipercross Viper in sight! Note the large cooling ducts for the brakes as well.

Secondly, show me a picture of engine bay of a production car from a mainstream manufacturer that uses an open cone air filter.

So you haven't taken my advice on the trip to the doctors.....

Yes - engine components get warm when a car is driven.
No Suprise here then.....

Yes - warm air does rise in a stationary engine bay.
Not Rocket Science.....

Companies like that develop products for a wide range of cars and simply adapt them for different applications.
Not true, every single AEM, K&N, BLITZ & HKS filter kit is developed for each car including extensive testing & dyno runs. Take a look at K&N's website for the details on each application which include full colour instructions & in many cases dyno graphs.

Excess heat escapes the engine bay as the volume of air that passes through the radiator and the open wheel arch areas (especially on the O/S of the EP3) cause such a high volume of airflow that the air under the bonnet is constantly replaced / recharged. Your statement that warm air doesn't escape from the rear of the engine bay is ludicrous, back to that cough of yours again .

Radiator positioning is obvious for many many reasons as is the fact that i'm not a car designer and you most certainly aren't an engineer.

I agree there is lots of marketing bollox out there pedalled by lots of different manufacturers (most of which ABP don't have any dealings with), we believe facts that companies like AEM, K&N etc make publically available which include power graphs etc and we also independantly dyno parts ourselves on our cars to back these claims up. There is also LOTS of 'internet forum keyboard wannabe engineers' preaching absolute bollox with little or no experience or knowledge of the topic, as i often say 'A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing'.

BTCC, WTCC, DTM, WRC & FIA GT are teams with limitless budgets and all will inevitably use specific designed intake kits as they can do things that on road cars are simply impossible or impracticle to do. How many EP3 / FN2 owners do you know who would be prepared to run an air intake in place of a headlamp or cut the front bumper to pieces?

Stunning DTM pics but how many road cars will spend £15k on an intake / front bumper kit? Horses for courses and you get what you pay for right?

You will be pleased to know that we have supplied very few PIPERCROSS VIPER kits for CTRs as most people choose to go for AEM etc

Manufacturers are restricted on using the common black plastic airbox system for a number of reasons including strict sound levels, cost, space restrictions, multi-country use (whats good for Africa isn't so hot for Sweden) and others. But specialist manufacturers including Westfield & Caterham still use open filters.

Interestingly take a look at the filter used by Roger Clarks Gobstopper, quite possibly the best Impreza in the country and 2008 Time Attack winner, you guessed it an open K&N cone filter
http://images.turbomagazine.com/feature ... ne_bay.jpg

Now get to the doctors before that cough gets any worse

Chris
ABP

The AEM and HKS short ram systems do make very good power at peak there is no denying that however the performance low down/midrange isn't as good as a stock closed airbox and unfortunatly that is where your sitting when driving the car normally.

On a race car where your high rpm most of the time I would have no hessitation of going open cone. For normal driving everyday car then CAI or closed airbox is the best option.

On a side note we are starting to hear reports about poor performance of a "semi-closed" intake at low rpm giving issues as well which is the new K&N Apollo so you really have to think about what exactly you want and that often cheapest is not best, although AEM CAI is cheaper than the shortram which is a bit strange and somewhat the exception as it works very very well.