How can I improve my brakes?
Well, the weakest parts of most braking systems are:
Fluid
Hoses
Pads
If you haven't upgraded these already, then you really need to.
So where to start?
Pads
The best road pads IMHO for doing the odd trackday are the Ferodo DS2500 - this is the pad you want when you spend around 80% or more time on the road. Plenty of information in the brakes section, please also check Broccer's Group Buy for discount.
Plus points: relatively cheap, excellent performance when hot and still good when cold, hard wearing
Downsides: Generate more brake dust than OEM, can be noisy if not bedded in properly
Fluid
For road use only, a decent DOT5.1 fluid such as AP, Castrol, Motul will be fine and will not fade on road in anything other than exceptional circumstances.
Positives: It will only require changing at regular servicing intervals, has a relatively high boiling point, not as expensive as a decent racing fluid
Negatives: Can compress under high temperatures leading to spongy brakes
For road and regular track use you should look at a decent DOT4 with a high boiling point such as Motul RBF600 or Castrol SRF.
Positives: Very high boiling point, so fade is kept at bay
Negatives: RBF600 is expensive at £15 per 500ml (you need 3 of them for a fluid change), has to be changed regularly (around every 4 - 6 months) as it absorbs moisture, and changed if you boil it.
Hoses
For hoses - a decent set of stainless steel Goodridge hoses will improve the pedal feel a lot.
Positives: increases pedal feel
Negatives: Price is around £60
Discs
The OEM Honda discs are very good indeed and you have to spend a serious amount of cash to improve on them IMHO. They are tough, long lasting, don't chew pads to pieces and are relatively resistant to warping at high temperatures
Positives: as above, plus price - OEM front discs are £42 each from your local dealer under the Honda Happiness scheme
Negatives: none for the money
The next stage up (you would have to be spending 80%> time on track to warrant these) would be something like the Dixcel heat slotted discs but they are a fair amount of money.
Positives: will be awesome on track
Negatives: not so good on the road, noisy, cost
Total cost of above
That lot will set you back around £300 fitted (including an hour's labour at your local garage) if you go for pads all round and good fluid
I have done numerous trackdays with that setup, also including 3 Honda Euro Tours at 3000 miles each and around 8 trips to the Nurburgring and I'm still (just) on my first set of pads and disks. Therefore they have lasted around 20,000 miles of hard use.
Ok I've got all that done but I'm spending more and more time on track
Well you have several options, but like everything in life they cost money. In the case of the AP kit, you need 17" aftermarket wheel for the caliper to clear the alloy. The Stoptech kit fits behing OEM wheels (only just)
Stoptech 4 pot brake kit
AP Racing 4 pot brake kit
The main reason to go for a set of 4 pots would be to do open pitlane trackdays where you are running for more than 30 minutes at a time on track. As an experienced track day enthusiast I never run for more than about 20 minutes per outing because the concentration required for driving for longer is too much, plus the rest of the car needs to cool down as well as the brakes.
You should absolutely not be able to fade the brakes on the public road, unless you are driving round with your foot resting on the pedal. The only time I have ever had fade on the road was due to 20 minutes of continuous hairpins in the Swiss Alps.
FN2 users who want a big brake kit:
Email [email protected]
Nicko11 wrote:I have dropped an email to Team Dynamics and this is a copy of the response:So evilowl, you seem quite opinionated - why don't you like cheap kits?
We can confirm we are offering upgrade products for the Honda Civic FN2. At the moment we can confirm the following, all prices are plus VAT:
Brake Kit - £1500 + vat
Civic Kits involve:
- Calipers, 4-piston road specification types with a black or red finish.
- Caliper mounting brackets.
- Discs, Ø330x26mm thick, 48 cooling vanes, 8 grooves per brake face, bolted to alloy bell centres.
- Pads, Ferodo DS2500
- Hose adaptors to convert standard Honda hose to suit APR caliper hydraulic feed
- Brake fluid, 1Ltr high temp DOT 5.1.
- All mounting bolts, washers’ nuts etc…
17” aftermarket wheels with adequate spoke depth are required to clear this kit.
BTCC race replica wheels (15” & 16” do not suit upgrade calipers) – tyre packages available on request.
- 7x15" Pro race 1.2 £110.00
- 7x16" Pro race 1.2 £120.00
- 7x17" Pro race 1.2 £140.00
- 7.5x17" Pro race 1.2 £150.00
- 8x17" Pro race 1.2 £155.00
- 9x17" Pro race 1.2 £165.00
- 8x18" Pro race 1.2 £160.00
- 9x18" Pro race 1.2 £185.00
- 9x20" Pro race 1.2 £260.00
Please excuse the lack of prices available, we will have all of this information by next week. All of the products have been developed from our BTCC race cars. We have a continued relationship with our Motorsport suppliers, which has enabled us to provide a road legal upgrade to the standard road going Honda Civic FN2. A fitment service will be available in due course, though at present it is supply only.
I have attached some photographs. There will be more to follow.
Put simply, I have never found most so-called "upgrades" to be any value for money whatsoever. Either they do not perform better than OEM parts, or they suffer from manufacturing faults and all sorts. My advice is to do the basics - fluid/pads/hoses, or if you really want to spend the money, get the right big brake kit for your intended purposes and one that has been well tested for your car.
The braking system on a car is important. It is there to stop you having a big accident because you can't slow down in time. So-called upgrades that upset the brake balance bias will just cause you to crash if you stamp on the middle pedal and the rear locks up before the front.
At the end of the day we are all entitled to our own opinion, and unlike most people I do actually go out and use my car as Honda intended it to be used. I am sharing my knowledge of 5 years ownership of this car and 15 years of driving performance hatchbacks. I try and stop people from wasting money like I have in the past, I don't make any money out of promoting one kit or another so I am not biased in that respect. It doesn't always make me popular with people who make a living from selling these items though.