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Got an discussion that needs a majority verdict? Put it to the vote.

How will you vote?

Vote REMAIN
6
30%
Vote LEAVE
10
50%
Undecided
1
5%
Spoiled ballot
No votes
0%
Not voting
3
15%
User avatar
By jtc
#3857405
Borrowed from Facebook
The EU referendum is not a matter for your heart. It's nothing to do with freedom from oppression. The democratic rights your grandparents fought for aren't being taken from you. Immigrants aren't crippling the country. We aren't full.

It's a matter for your head. You need to decide whether we are, as a nation, stronger in Europe or out.

On every useful level I can only any longer see arguments for remaining In. I won't bother making them because they're Flipping boring and other people do it a lot better than me.

But here's my point:

Some people I've observed saying they'll vote out are doing so based on nationalistic pride. It feels right to them. British independence. Nobody's going to tell us what to do.

There's nothing wrong with being British and proud. And god knows I hate being told what to do too. But it's not the right reason for voting one way or the other. Sure there's others that believe the numbers add up but they're few and far between. Like flat earthers, anti vaxxers and homeopaths.

Almost all experts disagree with the Out campaign figures. And these aren't "the establishment" or shadowy figures with vested interests. They're from every social class and background. From the richest to the poorest in our society.

So if you're on the fence, and wondering which way to vote. I strongly suggest you vote In. It doesn't mean you're not a proud Brit. It just means you're choosing to be a proud Brit and part of something else too. All the other arguments take care of themselves.
User avatar
By jtc
#3857420
And more...
A good friend of mine came up with a great idea. If you don't have the time/inclination to find out all the facts about the EU referendum (I don't blame you) and are possibly unsure which way to vote, perhaps knowing how other notable people are thinking could help out.

Here are a few that strongly believe the UK should remain a member of the EU:

• Governor of the Bank of England
• International Monetary Fund
• Institute for Fiscal Studies
• Confederation of British Industry
• Leaders/heads of state of every single other member of the EU
• President of the United States of America
• Eight former US Treasury Secretaries
• President of China
• Prime Minister of India
• Prime Minister of Canada
• Prime Minister of Australia
• Prime Minister of Japan
• Prime Minister of New Zealand
• The chief executives of most of the top 100 companies in the UK including Marks and Spencer, BT, Asda, Vodafone, Virgin, IBM, BMW etc.
• Kofi Annan, the former Secretary General of the United Nations
• All living former Prime Ministers of the UK (from both parties)
• Virtually all reputable and recognised economists
• The Prime Minister of the UK
• The leader of the Labour Party
• The Leader of the Liberal Democrats
• The Leader of the Green Party
• The Leader of the Scottish National Party
• The leader of Plaid Cymru
• Leader of Sinn Fein
• Martin Lewis, that money saving dude off the telly
• The Secretary General of the TUC
• Unison
• National Union of Students
• National Union of Farmers
• Stephen Hawking
• Chief Executive of the NHS
• 300 of the most prominent international historians
• Director of Europol
• David Anderson QC, Independent Reviewer of Terrorism Legislation
• Former Directors of GCHQ
• Secretary General of Nato
• Church of England
• Church in Scotland
• Church in Wales
• Friends of the Earth
• Greenpeace
• Director General of the World Trade Organisation
• WWF
• World Bank
• OECD

Here are pretty much the only notable people who think we should leave the EU:

• Boris Johnson, who probably doesn’t really care either way, but knows he’ll become Prime Minister if the country votes to leave
• A former Secretary of State for Work and Pensions who carried out a brutal regime of cuts to benefits and essential support for the poorest in society as well as the disabled and sick
• The guy who was Education Secretary and every single teacher in the country hated with a furious passion for the damage he was doing to the education system
• Leader of UKIP
• BNP
• Britain First
• Donald Trump
• Keith Chegwin
• David Icke

So, as I said, if you can’t be bothered to look into the real facts and implications of all this in/out stuff, just pick the list that you most trust and vote that way. It really couldn’t be more simple.

And if you are unsure about leaving, don't.
User avatar
By pulpmelon_r
#3857466
If my local council stop collecting my bins, I can vote in a new one.
If the Majority party puts up my taxes, I can vote them out.
If some Belgian guy with nothing better to do decides I'm not allowed to wear green on Tuesdays and all bananas must have a 13 degree bend in them. Then what?

I think the best example I can give CTRO is the TIPP negotiations that are taking place behind closed doors.
User avatar
By jtc
#3857477
pulpmelon_r wrote:If my local council stop collecting my bins, I can vote in a new one.
If the Majority party puts up my taxes, I can vote them out.
If some Belgian guy with nothing better to do decides I'm not allowed to wear green on Tuesdays and all bananas must have a 13 degree bend in them. Then what?

I think the best example I can give CTRO is the TIPP negotiations that are taking place behind closed doors.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromyth
User avatar
By pulpmelon_r
#3857480
jtc wrote:
pulpmelon_r wrote:If my local council stop collecting my bins, I can vote in a new one.
If the Majority party puts up my taxes, I can vote them out.
If some Belgian guy with nothing better to do decides I'm not allowed to wear green on Tuesdays and all bananas must have a 13 degree bend in them. Then what?

I think the best example I can give CTRO is the TIPP negotiations that are taking place behind closed doors.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromyth
Address the point please
User avatar
By gatecrasher3
#3857481
The very fact that Obama is so keen for us to remain in the EU is a concern from a TTIP perspective and is enough on its own to give serious thought to voting out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
User avatar
By jtc
#3857486
pulpmelon_r wrote:
jtc wrote:
pulpmelon_r wrote:If my local council stop collecting my bins, I can vote in a new one.
If the Majority party puts up my taxes, I can vote them out.
If some Belgian guy with nothing better to do decides I'm not allowed to wear green on Tuesdays and all bananas must have a 13 degree bend in them. Then what?

I think the best example I can give CTRO is the TIPP negotiations that are taking place behind closed doors.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromyth
Address the point please
What was the point? We can't make our own laws? False.

Or TTIP will ruin us all? False. We don't even know much about it, nor would much of the scaremongering pass those EU agreement/legislative laws anyway.
User avatar
By pulpmelon_r
#3857488
I can simplify:

a) EU law supersedes / overrules UK law, if you don't like it, how can you fight it?

b) Closed door EU level negotiations deeply affect us all, if the effect is negative for the many and positive for the few, how can we fight it?

PS: I'm surprised that you are making authoritative statements on something you don't know much about, will this be a persistent theme of our exchange through this thread today?
User avatar
By jtc
#3857490
Hardly authoritative, though still no actual facts, just fear uncertainty and doubt.

I reckon remain outweighs the leave, as do quite a few people. Just hope the vote goes that way. If not, I'll welcome it actually being "better" if it ever is.

Long time ago I had and Ep3 for 220k kilometers in[…]